Update: Keep the responses coming, folks. Answer on Monday.
19 August 2011
Many things right and one thing terribly wrong
The NLM recently posted on a church down under in Australia that celebrates according to the 1962 Missal. If that's so, these folks deserve a lot of cudos for the many things they get right. But this photo shows that they get (at least) one thing about the traditional rites very wrong. Answers in a comment please.
Update: Keep the responses coming, folks. Answer on Monday.
Update: Keep the responses coming, folks. Answer on Monday.
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Would it be that lack of veil over the tabernacle door?
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, they do have a veil over the top of the tabernacle, but it's not strictly according to Fortescue. They need a couple of good old-fangled Anglo-Catholics to set them right.
SERVER IN ALB! SERVER IN ALB! GREAT GOD ALMIGHTY, IT'S A SERVER IN AN ALB!!! ;)
ReplyDeleteBut really...someone send them a translation of the rubrics!
There is much precedent for the door of the tabernacle uncovered, as long as there is some covering on the tabernacle itself, and even the pope's private chapel conforms to this usage (not that that necessarily justifies a practice) There is absolutely nothing in the rubrics that prevents a server from being vested in alb, or even in lay dress if a layman: let's not be myopically severe.
ReplyDelete-JGP
Where is the bell? Come to think of it why is the server on the Gospel side?
ReplyDeleteOh for crying out loud. Rubrics aside, server-in-alb is very Medieval and traditional in its own way, even if people associate it with Novus Ordo-ism. A veil on the tabernacle would be nice, but maybe they just don't have one that fits.
ReplyDeleteIs it the different shades of green? I can count at least four. Or the pretty ugly brown?
ReplyDeleteAt first, I thought it was the unlit candles (two should be lit for Low Mass). But over at NLM, one of the photos shows lit candles.
ReplyDeleteLost my 1st post on this. Would your concern be for the cushion on the Epistle side for the acolyte to kneel on, which technically is reserved for prelates?
ReplyDelete-JGP
While it's more convenient for the server to be on the right hand side, I've been to Masses where either way has worked. When I used to serve Low Mass alone I would always go to the right at the beginning of Mass. I believe the rubrics are silent on this.
ReplyDeleteTwo of the candles could be lit. It's just that we can't see the tops of the candles.
As for the cushion: C'mon, have any of you knelt for 45 minutes on marble? This is part of the reason I stopped serving! ;-) Wood might be easier on the knees, though.
As for the cushion: C'mon, have any of you knelt for 45 minutes on marble?
ReplyDeleteThe rules that prohibit a cushion also, I believe, assume that the steps are carpeted, which is not the case here.
Umm..not a fiddleback chasuble?
ReplyDeleteThe server is correct, prayers at the foot of the altar, server always on the opposite side to the missal.
I give in!
I am wondering why the bourse is on the Epistle side while the chalice still has the veil? Where is the corporal?
ReplyDeleteJust a whole lot of bellyaching from the usual Pharisees and Rubrics Police. Burn the rubrics. Nobody pays much attention to them anyway.
ReplyDeleteAre you referring to the colour of the antependium?
ReplyDeleteI would disagree, as would everybody else who reads this blog, I suspect, with 'anon's' (20 August 0.6.54) rather negative attitude on rubrics. At the same time, while one should obey the rubrics given to us by the Church, one should do so in a Christian spirit. 'Nit picking' can, at times, be excessive. Fr. A.M.
I think it is that the burse is on the Gospel side and not the epistle side of the altar.
ReplyDeleteUH? What are ssome of your problems? The burse is correct if the corporal i spread.I know that in the old days sometimes a binating priest would leave the corporal on the altar and the chalice in that configuration. I cannot find a rule about the burse's position.
ReplyDeleteIt is appropriate to have the bell on the credence so that nobody trips on it moving about. No rule on this until needed. Soometimes an exterior bell is used and in St. Peter's no bell was used at all until quite recently.
The rule I learned, before Vatican II, was that the server was always opposite the Missal when it was open.
Server's garb has been answered, unless this is a cleric.
The things on the steps are really kneeling pads. Prelates actually use big fluffy pillows with tassles. They are in specific colors, never beige as here.
The vestments are Roman, in a particular style. Vestments are not Roman because they have bottoms like fiddles and do not cover the arms. Roman vestments have to do with what is included in the set.
The only possible mistake is that the frontal is not green. In fact, I do not think that it is of any liturgical color. The background of the tapestry is probably rqw linnen. The orpheries and superfrontal are deep red. This is an omnibus style popular among Anglicans for all but the most penitential situatio s. Indeet, this picture was taken to show off the vestment from St. Bedes. Vestment dealers are completely ecumenial. This could be an Anglo- Catholic celebration. The stand floor candles look very Anglican. Let us ponder that.
The Rev. Michael P. Forbes
Rochesster,, MN
Shouldn't the Missal be closed during Prayers at the Foot of the Altar?
ReplyDeleteBailey: To answer your question, No. The priest would have opened it to the page on which is found the proper Introit, then step down to the floor to begin the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar.
ReplyDeleteThe server is on the correct side (opposite the missal), as is the burse (Gospel side). I know (from the NLM) that two candles are lit. The two tall candles fully visible appear to be unbleached, but I doubt that's the error in question. I'm usually good at spotting mistakes, but in this case, I give up. Do tell, O Pimpernel, please.
Anonymous: Thank you. I realized my error shortly after posting my guess at the answer.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that the server's alb is the problem. Although there is medieval precedent, I believe it was only for Solemn Mass. I think the surplice is the proper vestment for a server at Low Mass.
Oremus pro invicem!
The altarcloth does not reach down to the bottom on either side ?
ReplyDeleteA religious.
ps. the OUTER altar cloth...
ReplyDeleteA religious.
Should the server be kneeling on the floor, as opposed to the step, at this point?
ReplyDeleteAnon 21st August - He is kneeling on the floor.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the alb, tabernacle cover (this is not only Fortescue's position), and the frontal, and I would add to that the superfluous candles on the floor on each side of the altar. Also, if possible, it is better to remove the candles for a sung Mass when a spoken Mass is said and the shorter candles are used. The best way is not use the shorter candles but instead light two candles using the candles for sung Mass and alternating which candles are lighted in order to maintain a nice horizontal line. Finally, the burse should be on the Gospel side.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, this is a very busy altar which borders on distracting. One of the very best books on the altar is Geoffrey Webb's "The Liturgical Altar" which can be found at www.romanitaspress.com. The main theme throughout is that "any altar conforming to the liturgical decrees inevitably gains in simplicity. It thereby gains in dignity too." (ch. 18)
ReplyDeleteThe Pimpernel found this email when checking the spam:
ReplyDeleteDear Sir,
Can you please remove this photo immediately?
http://liturgicalpimpernel.blogspot.com/2011/08/many-things-right-and-one-thing.html
This is my photo and it is copyrighted - this is clearly stated on the website. You have taken this without obtaining prior permission.
Regards,
Chris Steward
Webmaster, Newman Community Melbourne.
Mr Steward fails to realise that the photo was taken from the NLM site as the post states where it appeared without any copyright notice, that it is in the public domain and that the Pimpernel's use of it from there is not in breach of international copyright law.